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» Animal Rights and Libertarianism   2003-10-02 22:04 Strawman

24601 has taken the position that

Surely, the first political right we give to any entity, if we are being consistent and honest to ourselves, would be the right not to be killed.

That is only one of many consistent positions.

Another consistent view is that animals have the right to choice (like the rest of us), and therefore the right to avoid pain. But animals do not understand death - and therefore don't actually choose against it. While spattering sheep brains all over the wall with an electric bolt may seem violent, sheep don't understand it, and don't (or can't) choose against it.

If you give a sheep the choice between:

  • You can grow old and weak, die in pain, have no feed (or try to find it yourself), no protection from foxes etc, or
  • You can live a healthy energetic life, get nice and fat, and then we'll put an electric bolt through your head and eat you, and then make lots of your offspring and then give them the same choice.

What would the sheep choose? Who knows - the sheep is not capable of understanding the choice. Have you taken choice away from the sheep by choosing for it?

However, given the choice between:

  • I'm going to keep prodding you with this electric baton; or
  • You can run away

The sheep's choice is obvious - try it.

There is very close parallel here with humans. Suppose you must choose between:

  • You can choose to submit to the will of the Mullahs, and have your life controlled right down to how you wash and defecate. But you will never have to take direct responsibility for anything, and be able to say 'society is to blame' when in a tight spot; or
  • You have total control of your own life, and also total responsibility for it - and your children too. If you make poor decisions the results may be catastrophic, and you will have no one to blame but yourself.

What would most people choose?

Don't blame the government - the problems (and the hope) lies with the proletariat.