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» 14000 Rejectees Vanish   2002-12-18 23:04 Strawman

>> Here's a thought, make temporary protection visas indefinitely temporary - they
>> last until you are processed.

>> The welfare state makes immigration or refugees less attaractive. We accept
>> someone who can support themselves, prosper, and make us richer by being par of
>> our economy, but someone who is going to either bludge or who cannot work is
>> looked upon undesireably.

>> To me, the level of welfare and the acceptance of newbies is inseparablely
>> linked. Whilst we should for our own benefit dismantle the welfare state, and
>> allow in more refugees and immigrants, most people prefer to give money to a
>> bludger they have a loose association with than get a job from a stranger with
>> more hair and gold chains.

I have two issues with this. The first is crime, the second is libertarian abduction.

Importing more people with lower skills (or skills which are not as marketable in a developed Western world to use the appropriate euphemism), will result in higher crime. The economic benefits of having more people has to be weighed against the cost of crime. If the crime is pinching a few bicycles, so we have to get locks, then cost is small. If the crime is flying hijacked passenger planes into skyscrapers, then we may be better off with less people.

Libertarians reason: 'libertarianism results in free movement across borders' therefore: 'freer movement across borders results in more libertarianism'. Rubbish! This is about about on par with saying 'all you need for communism to work is for people to abandon self interest'. Such insight!

Let's think this through with a thought experiment:

  1. Create a healthy capitalist welfare state (by this I mean a free market economy with tax rates at the Laffer maximum, which is used mostly to subsidize poverty (ie welfare)).
  2. Open the borders, so anyone can come to the country, and any new arrivals are eligible for the welfare immediately.
  3. Give these new arrivals the vote, so they can vote on how much welfare they get.

What happens? Do you think this leads to
a) A libertarian society
b) A society which is still healthy and capitalist
c) A basket-case economy with 80% tax rates and a majority population who are just intent on voting themselves more money through the public trough?

It's not a trick question. Let me suggest that if you want to create a more libertarian society, you should pick your voters a little carefully. There are no societies in the world which are libertarian - not even the democracies. Libertarians seem think that choosing people who willingly belong to a totally repressive religion which tries to control every aspect of people's lives will vote for libertarian policies. They should get a life.

  • 14000 Rejectees Vanish -- An-ather bloody Libertarian 2002-12-19